Iran terrorist plot on US soil foiled

^ Did Charles Manson walk down to the police station and voluntarily turn himself in?

Does Dog the Bounty Hunter have authorization to kill fugitives simply because they are fugitives?

Saddam did not surrender, why was he captured instead of killed on site?
 


Ambush risk in those cases was much lower.

Ambush risk in Awlaki's case is much higher. Foreign country, surrounded by terrorists/supporters. High probability of informants giving critical information away about American troop locations, movement, etc.

Too risky, bro.
 
Ar Scion said:
I'm not denying the rights afforded to US Citizens.

I'm merely supplementing that fact with another set of facts:

1) That we are at war against a terrorist group that he is part of.
2) That he is actively seeking to kill Americans.
3) That while he was provided an opportunity to surrender and face trial, he refused and has continued to evade authorities for 10+ years.
4) He never attempted to make use of the constitutional rights that would have kept him alive.
5) He was located and actively operating outside of the US.

To look at the issue as solely one of US citizenship and constitutional rights is to put blinders on. It's much more than that, don't you see?
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jesus christ lol

listen to yourself

that 'group you seem to be at war with' was paid by nato funds to invade libya
 
Ar Scion said:
Ambush risk in those cases was much lower.

Ambush risk in Awlaki's case is much higher. Foreign country, surrounded by terrorists/supporters. High probability of informants giving critical information away about American troop locations, movement, etc.

Too risky, bro.
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That would apply to the Osama mission and all the other captures or attempted captures they have made.

IEDs are/were the top killer of American troops in Afghanistan. Simply being over there and riding around in hummers and such is risky.
 
_Richard_ said:
listen to yourself
that 'group you seem to be at war with' was paid by nato funds to invade libya
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How is that relevant?

The guy is an outspoken leader in an organization that the US is at war with. At what point did we decide that we cannot kill the enemy? I realize Obama should have handled it differently, but how can it be said any more plainly, he is a leader in an army that we are at war with.
 
REIMktg said:
How is that relevant?

The guy is an outspoken leader in an organization that the US is at war with. At what point did we decide that we cannot kill the enemy? I realize Obama should have handled it differently, but how can it be said any more plainly, he is a leader in an army that we are at war with.
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He is a United States citizen. It doesn't matter if he has murdered half the people in the country, it doesn't change the law on the books.

These laws applied to Timothy McVeigh and to these guys : Men charged with plotting to kill Obama - CNN

If you don't agree with the laws and think they should be changed, that is one thing, but it's still a basic legal concept that a citizen accused of ANY significant crime has a legal right to a trial.

There are three branches of government - executive, legislative and judicial. The President and CIA fall under the executive branch, and they are not meant to be supreme dictators over the other branches.
 
Moxie said:
He is a United States citizen. It doesn't matter if he has murdered half the people in the country, it doesn't change the law on the books.

These laws applied to Timothy McVeigh and to these guys : Men charged with plotting to kill Obama - CNN

If you don't agree with the laws and think they should be changed, that is one thing, but it's still a basic legal concept that a citizen accused of ANY significant crime has a legal right to a trial.

There are three branches of government - executive, legislative and judicial. The President and CIA fall under the executive branch, and they are not meant to be supreme dictators over the other branches.
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I am trolling a bit because I understand your point fully. But there is a difference between criminal behavior and joining a foreign army that we are at war with. I get that it is scary to have the POTUS issue death warrants - but he does have Muslim roots so a Fatwa is within his world view.

Article III. Section 3. Constitution
Section. 3. Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.


Obama did not follow the rules. But this guy is guilty of Treason. The guy clearly and openly confessed his treason himself in Television interviews. Are you saying TV is not the court of public opinion?
 
wow first time i see people in wf talk in politics i agree with you all lies comes from us gov is bullshit no body still believe you

all people of the globe should comes together
 
Yuckystuff said:
So wait - are they terrorists or is it a foreign army? They can't be both...



His world view is irrelevant - the rules of the Constitution are there for a reason. They are meant to protect citizens from abuses of power, of which this is clearly a case.

You can not be guilty of treason if you have never been charged with it or tried for it. You can think he committed treason, and he may have committed treason, but he's not guilty of treason until he is charged with it and convicted in a court of law. Period.

So he was assassinated for speech crimes? Or was it thought crimes? Because apparently, he didn't actually commit any real crimes, at least none that we are aware of or that he was charged with.
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Look I am no fan of Obama nor was I a fan of Bush, and I agree that you are correct, there are a lot of problems of how this was handled and it sets a bad precedent - very bad.

But Al claimed he was a leader in Al Queda. The US is at war with Al Queda. That's not smart if you want to live. Counting on the US to follow the rules while you break them is a dangerous game.

But it should have been handled much differently.
 
REIMktg said:
You made this comment in reference to my stating how easy it is to change laws. The problem is that, possibly, you think everyone that disagrees with you is stupid. Maybe they are not stupid and they simply disagree and do not want to implement your ideas. I love how so many people think they are smarter than the US voter.
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I'm sure there are statistics around about the declining performance of the overall population in SATs or whatever other metrics that are used. There is also a strong correlation between low IQ and religiosity, a fact also reflected in how hardly any non-religious (or non-Christian for that matter) person gets elected into a position of power.



Your last sentence is an interesting type of arrogance.
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I disagree, I think politeness and hearing out a person, and reviewing supporting documents brought along are all fair expectations for $140 paid towards the visa application. I initially got a 90 seconds "interview" full of sarcasm and "rejected, you're too young to have ties to India" and this seems to be common practice. Only name dropping and a personal recommendation got me through. This "presumed immigrant" bullshit is just what I meant by narcissism, there are much better developed countries (Singapore or Canada for eg) who don't have their heads up their asses and have a transparent and friendly process for visitors.
 
Moxie said:
That would apply to the Osama mission and all the other captures or attempted captures they have made.

IEDs are/were the top killer of American troops in Afghanistan. Simply being over there and riding around in hummers and such is risky.
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Too many variables to make a blanket statement like that.

The relative importance of the targets, the tendency of the target to move- keep in mind OBL stayed at that place for years. It was very easy to compile intel on that location, know the risks, know he'd be there long enough for ST6 to start and finish training for the mission and be sent down.

With guys like Awlaki and the others we simply don't have the prep time/quality of information. We gotta act to get him, or we lose him.

And if we lose him, he's out there in the wild, planning more terrorist attacks against the US.

That being said, the more I argue about this, the more I worry about whether Obama has put all US citizens at risk.
 
Uncle Tony said:
I'm sure there are statistics around about the declining performance of the overall population in SATs or whatever other metrics that are used. There is also a strong correlation between low IQ and religiosity, a fact also reflected in how hardly any non-religious (or non-Christian for that matter) person gets elected into a position of power.
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Interesting study where you are equating Dogmatism of 12-16 year olds to the 12-16 year old Atheists. Is there no line short of Dogmatism? A whole theory on 12-16 year olds that is expanded to understand everyone in the culture of all ages? The study is skewed, find another.



Uncle Tony said:
I disagree, I think politeness and hearing out a person, and reviewing supporting documents brought along are all fair expectations for $140 paid towards the visa application. I initially got a 90 seconds "interview" full of sarcasm and "rejected, you're too young to have ties to India" and this seems to be common practice. Only name dropping and a personal recommendation got me through. This "presumed immigrant" bullshit is just what I meant by narcissism, there are much better developed countries (Singapore or Canada for eg) who don't have their heads up their asses and have a transparent and friendly process for visitors.
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So for $140 you have the right to come here and we should not be curious about your willingness to return home? Maybe you have not heard but the US has a huge immigration problem and an even larger one where people come and decide to stay. Yes, unlike many countries, people that come here oftentimes want to stay and heaven forbid you are a female and drop a baby during your stay, wow, an instant Citizen and of course you get to stay and be supported by the Govt to care for that child...... and on and on it goes.

Now you may be make and be perfectly legit, in fact you may hate the US and not be able to stand it here and want to go home. But the problem is the guy looking at your papers does not know this and he has to make certain that anyone going to the US has a reason to leave, not stay, suck up the resources and send them back home Western Union.
 
REIMktg said:
So for $140 you have the right to come here and we should not be curious about your willingness to return home? Maybe you have not heard but the US has a huge immigration problem and an even larger one where people come and decide to stay. Yes, unlike many countries, people that come here oftentimes want to stay and heaven forbid you are a female and drop a baby during your stay, wow, an instant Citizen and of course you get to stay and be supported by the Govt to care for that child...... and on and on it goes.

Now you may be make and be perfectly legit, in fact you may hate the US and not be able to stand it here and want to go home. But the problem is the guy looking at your papers does not know this and he has to make certain that anyone going to the US has a reason to leave, not stay, suck up the resources and send them back home Western Union.
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I agree with you completely. However, I lack a womb and an ovary so the baby dropping shouldn't be an issue. I was just saying that it's fair to expect that the papers be looked at and the interview to last for a minimum of 5 minutes. How in the fuck is someone supposed to prove "strong ties" to their home country if you don't look at their papers?
 
It's all staged by the global elites, the rich bankers. They are trying to destroy our economy by ruining the dollar and slowly take our freedoms away such as the NDAA act, SOPA, ACTA, ETC.

Ron Paul is not getting a fair playing ground, and fraud is running ramped.

There is so much more to this than most people can comprehend. Alex Jones' Infowars: There's a war on for your mind!

Got to Alex Jones' Infowars: There's a war on for your mind! for factual data w/ proven records to solidify the findings.
 
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