Let me drop a grenade in the room
- Thread starter LotsOfZeros
- Start date
It's obvious as fuck that *some* of you obviously don't know families that are scared shitless that are living in places like Arizona and Texas.
I don't drink, havn't had a drop in years, but I am still subject to being caught up in random DUI checkpoints. I have to show my ID, and answer the questions that the officer asks me. Are my rights being violated?
Arizona is now has the 2nd highest amount of kidnappings IN THE FUCKING WORLD. People like my sister, can no longer allow my 14 year old niece to walk to school anymore, take a bike ride to her friends house, or have the small freedoms that a 14 year old should have.
So, excuse the shit out of me, and a LARGE PERCENTAGE of other Americans that don't give a fuck how they do it, as long as they get this mess cleaned up.
My sister is dating a half-Mexican dude, and when I asked him about it earlier today, he said he wouldn't be offended at all if the police asked him to show his Identification. I imagine that most of the LEGAL MEXICANS in the state feel the same way.
As for how the border jumpers feel? I could care less, fuck them.
I don't drink, havn't had a drop in years, but I am still subject to being caught up in random DUI checkpoints. I have to show my ID, and answer the questions that the officer asks me. Are my rights being violated?
Arizona is now has the 2nd highest amount of kidnappings IN THE FUCKING WORLD. People like my sister, can no longer allow my 14 year old niece to walk to school anymore, take a bike ride to her friends house, or have the small freedoms that a 14 year old should have.
So, excuse the shit out of me, and a LARGE PERCENTAGE of other Americans that don't give a fuck how they do it, as long as they get this mess cleaned up.
My sister is dating a half-Mexican dude, and when I asked him about it earlier today, he said he wouldn't be offended at all if the police asked him to show his Identification. I imagine that most of the LEGAL MEXICANS in the state feel the same way.
As for how the border jumpers feel? I could care less, fuck them.
JustFU, finally growing some balls. That I can respect.
Saying "fuck em all, it solves my problem and I don't give a fuck how they feel or how it impacts lives of others" is a valid outlook on the issue. Can't argue with that.
If more people only had the balls to say that right from the start...
But trying to get the benefits of that approach while trying to mask your "fuck em all" attitude (with various flawed arguments) is pathetic.
You earned yourself a brownie. (But make sure the pot in it is not from Mexico or Canada, illegally brought into the US.)
I'll take this response:
...and this one:
...as an indication that I have made my point. Since nobody can dispute any of my arguments, then I suppose that means I win.
On a side note, I have a large gold star for sale if anyone is interested. I've got too many as it is.
...and this one:
...as an indication that I have made my point. Since nobody can dispute any of my arguments, then I suppose that means I win.
On a side note, I have a large gold star for sale if anyone is interested. I've got too many as it is.
Build a huge fucking fence on the North and South borders, conduct massive sweeps throughout primarily Hispanic neighborhoods and rent a ton of buses to deport the millions of illegals you find. Bam - country cleaned in a year.
Oh yeah, and tell the far-left throwing temper tantrums about "raaaacism" to STFU while we protect America - yet again.
Oh yeah, and tell the far-left throwing temper tantrums about "raaaacism" to STFU while we protect America - yet again.
Nothing like childish petty insults to really solidify your argument and persuade your opposition.
It seems you (along with millions others) have a flawed definition of racism. But calling people racist is much easier than campaigning for something inherently flawed to begin with. I have a suspicion that you would deem anyone who supported any legislation that would make it more difficult for illegals to enter this country, remain in this country illegally, or receive benefits that an actual citizen receives, a racist. God forbid we want people who enter this country to do it within the constraints of the law. You act as if Arizona's police are going to start marching like Jack Booted thugs throwing anything brown and walking on two legs against the wall and start beating them until they provide their papers, which obviously isn't the case. It seems you have a bit more invested emotionally in to this than others. Got relatives here illegally? I look forward to reading your insult laden response.
Why should they be rewarded for breaking the law? Should they get to jump the line ahead of people that have been waiting 20+ years to immigrate the legal way?
There is currently a 23 year waiting list of Filipinos sponsored by siblings that are U.S. citizens. Applications made in late 1987 are now being processed.
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLni3wbndls]YouTube - south park-they took our jobs!!![/ame]
My buddy from AZ just told me about this. Didn't read the thread but I'm happy for the law. Too bad all the illegals are just gonna be headed out my way though. ^_^
It's not about illegals. It's about legal residents and citizens that have the appearance similar to that of the majority of illegals. How hard is it to grasp? Really.
I haven't heard a single reasonable argument from "the other side" which didn't fall back on the assumption that any defense is really about defending the rights of illegals. It's about defending the rights of people who are here legally, but will be subjected to extra scrutiny through racial profiling.
The discussion about whether illegals should be deported, left alone in status quo or legalized is a different matter. There are many arguments for and against it. But that's not what's wrong with the law.
What about natural born citizens of Mexican descent?
They are the ones getting fucked by this the most. Yet, you decided for them that it's OK. "They don't really mind it." Right? Or do you base it on the opinion of couple of friends and extrapolate it onto the entire segment of the population?
Nothing like childish petty insults to really solidify your argument and persuade your opposition.
It seems you (along with millions others) have a flawed definition of racism. But calling people racist is much easier than campaigning for something inherently flawed to begin with. I have a suspicion that you would deem anyone who supported any legislation that would make it more difficult for illegals to enter this country, remain in this country illegally, or receive benefits that an actual citizen receives, a racist. God forbid we want people who enter this country to do it within the constraints of the law. You act as if Arizona's police are going to start marching like Jack Booted thugs throwing anything brown and walking on two legs against the wall and start beating them until they provide their papers, which obviously isn't the case. It seems you have a bit more invested emotionally in to this than others. Got relatives here illegally? I look forward to reading your insult laden response.
Eh? It's not an insult if it's a correct observation. The vocal majority in this thread of the people going all 'der terk our jerbs and such who blindly support this bill are the same closed minded religious sycophants from another thread. Not an insult, fact.
I don't really care if my observations weaken my argument because it stands on its own. I don't need to persuade the opposition, particularly since they aren't open to persuasion to start with.
I made perfectly viable arguments as to why it's a bad thing which you cut out of your quote of course. Those arguments illustrate why it's not only racist, but can be abused to the point where it's deemed unconstitutional.
Illegal immigration has nothing to do with racism and I completely support reforming it. No one wants people swarming into the country and leeching regardless if they have noble intentions such as putting food on their families table. All of them should go through proper legal channels to gain citizenship. This bill on the other hand is racist however. The burden of proof is on you, not me.
No I don't have any illegal relatives here. Hypocrisy?
Certainly it doesn't mean that the police in AZ are going to run around picking people up, but they're legally allowed to now based upon, yes racist, precepts so it's perfectly ok to be disgusted about it.
As far as being emotionally invested, not quite, I did however grow up in Queens which is probably the most racially diverse place on the planet. So when I see any authority figure have carte blanche to do pretty much as they please based upon a persons ethnicity or skin tone I certainly take insult to that.
I already disputed the empty arguments made in this thread, but people such as this 'unarmed gunman' fellow will ignore them and are going to believe what they want to believe so whatever.
As a quick aside, the DUI checkpoint argument does not fit because it applies to -everyone-.
The same people praising this bill would quickly change their tune if the tables were turned on them in their own country. The reason this is bad is not because it improperly treats illegal immigrants, it's because it penalizes the true American citizens, and for that all of you should be disgusted.
In any event, I apologize for calling people stupid, I suppose what I meant to say is their argument is stupid.
It's funny that you mention me as one of the people ignoring your argument, since I have said repeatedly, in every post that I am against randomly checking Hispanics, and that it is a clear constitutional violation that will be overturned by the Supreme Court eventually if they enforce it that way. My only disagreement is as to the definition of racism. I have simply stated (with examples) that discrimination does not necessarily equal racism, and that racial profiling is discriminatory, but not necessarily racist.
I hate to see people water down the term racist, because it shouldn't be allowed to lose its meaning. I've even heard the argument that black people can't be racist since they are not in power (not hearing this as much after Obama got elected, but people actually believe shit like that), which is even more ridiculous. Some words have a very important, specific meaning, and should only be used where appropriate because of the historical connotations that go with them.
Insisting that racial profiling is inherently (and necessarily) racist, does an injustice to truly racist policies such as those targeting Jews in Nazi Europe, Blacks in slavery (or even under Jim Crow laws), Japanese in the internment camps during WWII, Apartheid in South Africa, the current plight of white farmers in Zimbabwe, etc.
Basically, I believe some words need to retain their original meaning to fully convey the evils associated with them - genocide being another example.Tossing them around anytime any kind of discrimination is involved is historically irresponsible in my opinion.
Once again, THIS ^^^^^^^
I have not hear Turbo or anyone else really bring any good points to disprove this. And no, wordnet 3.0 is not proof. Look up Racism in the dictionary and you will find a different, more accurate definition.
rac·ism:
1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
2. a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.
3. hatred or intolerance of another race or other race
The definition of racism involves an element of hatred or race superiority. Profiling does not. It's pretty simple to understand really...
Asking to see papers for hispanics does not mean you hate them or you are a superior race. Once they show you their papers and are legal, they are treated just as everyone else, even though they are of a different race.
I will concede that it is not out right racism but indeed is highly discriminatory.
I think it would be foolish to think that all of this does not have racist underpinnings though.
Possibly, although I think it is more economic than anything. It seems to me to be a reactionary law rooted in the economic frustrations of citizens in Arizona. There are much better ways to enforce the immigration laws than this though.
Yeah it's absolutely reactionary. Someone I know said in a way this law serves as a good thing because it moves the conversation into the public view. Which in a sense I agree with that sentiment. It's just a shame that something like this has to occur in our society for that to happen.
@matt - This country is increasingly becoming more and more non-white. In some years white people will actually be the minority. I would be bold enough to say there's a lot of older white people that are afraid of this fact.
In any event, penalizing the actual citizens of this country who are not white isn't the answer.
In any event, penalizing the actual citizens of this country who are not white isn't the answer.