Let me drop a grenade in the room

[JarredLv]

This bill on the other hand is racist however. The burden of proof is on you, not me.

Not quite. You made the accusation that the bill is racist, you back it up with fact. Until proven otherwise, I see no examples of racism. It's all just personal opinion mixed with emotional outbursts.

The reason this is bad is not because it improperly treats illegal immigrants, it's because it penalizes the true American citizens, and for that all of you should be disgusted.

It penalizes us...by allowing a LEO to question a person about their citizenship status when carrying out their duties? How barbaric.

 

[Ataraxy]

Not quite. You made the accusation that the bill is racist, you back it up with fact. Until proven otherwise, I see no examples of racism. It's all just personal opinion mixed with emotional outbursts.

It penalizes us...by allowing a LEO to question a person about their citizenship status when carrying out their duties? How barbaric.

I have already conceded that the bill is not outright racism, just extremely discriminatory, particularly against the wrong people.

I cited how it can be deemed unconstitutional already.

You can marginalize it all you want, but you're fooling yourself if you think this isn't going to be abused.

Please don't get it twisted, I'm not defending illegal immigrants, nothing of the sort. The big problem here is targeting people based on their skin color or ethnicity and as a result having legal American citizens treated as if they are otherwise until proven innocent. So I suppose my biggest problem is with racial profiling which is what this bill legalizes there.

Perhaps the next step should be allowing for law enforcement officers to do this without any reasonable cause to white people in New York, Montana, or any of the other 13 states that border Canada just to make sure they are not Canadian. I'm sure that would go over really well.

I don't understand how anyone can not think that's terribly wrong but ok.

 

[Ataraxy]

Better yet, did you know that the US has 3/4 of the worlds serial killers? How about that over 80% of them happen to be white and 85% of those are heterosexual males.

What? You don't think it's alright to let serial killers run around free I hope. Clearly the solution is to allow law enforcement to stop random straight white dudes on the street just to make certain they haven't killed anyone lately.

 

[hellblazer]

Just to get the liberal nutjobs on record: So you're saying all "racial profiling" is bad? Under every conceivable circumstance?

That race should NOT be used as a factor in criminal profiling WHATSOEVER?

That even if we know 80% of illegal aliens are of Mexican descent and we're rounding up illegals, race should play NO factor whatsoever?

Is that your position? If so, be loud and proud and state it for the record.

 

[Ataraxy]

Whose being a liberal nutjob here? I haven't said a thing about liberals or conservatives. Love the posturing.

I think that in the melting pot that is the United States, racial profiling is wrong, absolutely.

Additionally, if you're alright with racial profiling Hispanics because they might be illegal in the country, you would be a hypocrite to not be alright with the same bill being passed targeting straight white men because they tend to be serial killers.

 

[hellblazer]

Whose being a liberal nutjob here? I haven't said a thing about liberals or conservatives.

I don't even know who you are, but chances are from your insane rhetoric you're a liberal nutjob. And it's only far-left loons throwing a temper tantrum over this. There's not really anyone else left considering every poll shows huge majorities supporting this law.

I think that in the melting pot that is the United States, racial profiling is wrong, absolutely.

Ok, so you support a BLANKET BAN on using race as a factor in law enforcement and criminal profiling. So if we knew 80% of terrorists were Arab-looking, you would rather law enforcement waste your tax dollars frisking Swedish toddlers instead of primarily targeting... Arab-looking men. Nice, at least you're honest enough to own up to your suicidal logic.

Additionally, if you're alright with racial profiling Hispanics because they might be illegal in the country,

you would be a hypocrite to not be alright with the same bill being passed targeting straight white men because they tend to be serial killers...

Right, you're gonna ask white men for their citizenship papers in order to see if they're a serial killer or not. This is some Grade A brilliant thinking right here.

 

[Ataraxy]

Really, are you that dense you can't see the correlation being made...

I'd spell it out since we all know how you conservative nutjobs have a hard time with things but it would be pointless since it would not be written in crayon.

In a state where 1 in 3 people are Hispanic, evidently you're alright with any of them being pulled over for 'driving while Hispanic'.

 

[JustFU]

evidently you're alright with any of them being pulled over for 'driving while Hispanic'.

Yes.

And according to a large percentage of LEGAL Mexicans in AZ, they are OK with it too.

But, being pulled over for "driving while hispanic" isn't part of the law. The only different right now is, the police now have the power to do SOMETHING when they find out that someone here is illigal. Unlike in the past when they were for the most part instructed to not even ask.

 

[turbolapp]

Insisting that racial profiling is inherently (and necessarily) racist, does an injustice to truly racist policies such as those targeting Jews in Nazi Europe,

And how do you think this started? Do you think it actually started with the round up of the jews to put in concentration camps? No, that's how it ended.


I believe it just started with them being required to wear gold stars to separate them out....But that's not racist, just racial profiling.

 

[Unarmed Gunman]

And how do you think this started? Do you think it actually started with the round up of the jews to put in concentration camps? No, that's how it ended.

I believe it just started with them being required to wear gold stars to separate them out....But that's not racist, just racial profiling.

The difference though is that the policy was directed at ALL Jews and they were rounded up and placed into ghettos and had their property confiscated. To compare a policy of ID checks for illegal aliens (most countries will expel you if you aren't there legally) to the round-up of Jews in Germany is lunacy.

 

[erect]

Nothing wrong with the law. Nothing wrong with racial profiling.

As far as how to implement the law ... You don't have to pull people over for ID checking, just stage raids at night clubs & western union hubs. 70% of the problems will be solved.

Right, you're gonna ask white men for their citizenship papers in order to see if they're a serial killer or not. This is some Grade A brilliant thinking right here.

He's FBI material, no doubt

 

[rgordon83]

I cited how it can be deemed unconstitutional already.

The Healthcare bill is unconstitutional, and that passed. Do you have a problem there? (How can you force citizens to by a product from a private company? That's what the bill does by forcing every person to buy insurance or pay a fine...)

 

[Moldingbox]

I never knew how pissed people would be about Illegal aliens i thought America was built off of people immigrating to make a better life for themselves.

What happend? When did we become so entitled and high and mighty to say fuck the mexicans they are all pieces of shit?

The people behind home depot jaming into a truck to drive for an hour to work for 10 hours for shit wages to support a family and try and make a better life for themselves i think that is what is missing here.

Now we have a bunch of pussies bitching about oh my health care is going up Government save me or all these banks stole my money Government fine them or i was fucked because someone sold me ACAI FTC save me.

Fucking Americans need to take responsibility for themselves and stop feeling so entitled.

Work Hard, Make Money, Make a better Life for yourself - Isn't that what most illegals are trying to do?

Now yes there are the illegals that cause problems and yes fuck them send them home but then there are also Whites and Legals that cause problems.

Half the shit i have read on this thread is just fucking sad.

And i am from Mexican decent and married into an illegal family and i can tell you they work their asses off and Love this country probably more then most of the people that are legals.

 

[rgordon83]

Better yet, did you know that the US has 3/4 of the worlds serial killers? How about that over 80% of them happen to be white and 85% of those are heterosexual males.

This is such a flawed stat it's not even funny.

If the US is the best country at catching and prosecuting killers, then obviously we have the most "serial killers". But that's just because of the definition and are ability to notice and solve those crimes.

For example, would you call all the killing of rival tribes in Africa Serial Killers? Of course not. But are there way more people killing other people per capita in Africa then America? Of course! Are most of those people arrested and tried, of course not! They never get deemed as" serial killers". Therefore people like you can make up BS stats that make it seem like America is full of crime and serial killers relative to the rest of the world, when it's really not true. It's just semantics...

 

[rgordon83]

Additionally, if you're alright with racial profiling Hispanics because they might be illegal in the country, you would be a hypocrite to not be alright with the same bill being passed targeting straight white men because they tend to be serial killers.

Again, this is a bad analogy because you are trying to profile an entire race based on less than 1 half percent of that race committing a crime. Meaning of all white people, less than have a percent are serial killers (probably like .001%). Plus in prosecuting serial killers, you don;t just ask for ID, you need to arrest them.

But if, for example, you had a victim, and you had 10 suspects, of which 5 were white, and 5 were other race, i would agree, start with the white people b/c they fit the bill. That makes sense.

So if you have 12 million illegals in the country, the majority of which are Hispanic, seems like a good place to start to look for "suspects," especially if all you need to do is ask for an ID and that's it.

So if there are 40 million Hispanics here (USATODAY.com - 39 million make Hispanics largest U.S. minority group) and about 10 million here illegally, it's about 20%-25% of the population nationwide. But in Arizona it's an even higher concentrated percentage of illegals b/c it's near the border, so you're probably talking about 30%-40% of a population, that's a big difference in comparrison to your serial killer analogy where it's .001% of a population....

 

[rgordon83]

And how do you think this started? Do you think it actually started with the round up of the jews to put in concentration camps? No, that's how it ended.


I believe it just started with them being required to wear gold stars to separate them out....But that's not racist, just racial profiling.

But the reason they required them to wear stars is so they could ban them from certain public places and confine them to Ghettos. It was all based on Eugenics.

Here we want to verify legality of citizenship, not ban legal Hispanics from society.

You can't just say "well the jews had to identify themselves as jews and we are asking hispanics to identify themselves so it's the same thing."

It's really not, we are not asking Hispanics to identify that they belong to a race so they can be treated as sub human. Just the opposite, we are asking them to identify themselves to show they belong to our country so they can be treated like a citizen.

 

[rgordon83]

I never knew how pissed people would be about Illegal aliens i thought America was built off of people immigrating to make a better life for themselves.

What happend? When did we become so entitled and high and mighty to say fuck the mexicans they are all pieces of shit?

The people behind home depot jaming into a truck to drive for an hour to work for 10 hours for shit wages to support a family and try and make a better life for themselves i think that is what is missing here.

Now we have a bunch of pussies bitching about oh my health care is going up Government save me or all these banks stole my money Government fine them or i was fucked because someone sold me ACAI FTC save me.

Fucking Americans need to take responsibility for themselves and stop feeling so entitled.

Work Hard, Make Money, Make a better Life for yourself - Isn't that what most illegals are trying to do?

Now yes there are the illegals that cause problems and yes fuck them send them home but then there are also Whites and Legals that cause problems.

Half the shit i have read on this thread is just fucking sad.

And i am from Mexican decent and married into an illegal family and i can tell you they work their asses off and Love this country probably more then most of the people that are legals.

Are you sure you read the thread? B/c if you did you should have understood that nobody here has a problem with immigrants, they have problems with ILLEGAL immigrants.

You're right, all of our ancestors emigrated here, but they did it LEGALLY. They waited in line, paid money, and now pay taxes back into the system, speak the language of the country, and "melted" into the pot, so to speak.

Illegals do none of those things. As a mexican immigrant you should be insulted that you had to work hard and wait your turn while other people are cutting in line and gaming the system.

 

[JustFU]

I never knew how pissed people would be about Illegal aliens i thought America was built off of people immigrating to make a better life for themselves.

I don't think anyone cares who comes to the country. In this situation though, Illigal immigrants are over running the schools, committing a huge amount of crime, flooding emergency rooms, not paying any taxes, and are generally living off of society as a whole.

The final straw in the equation though is all of the violent crime, kidnapping, sexual assaults, and drug activity in places like AZ and TX. This crime is without a doubt being caused by and carried out by Mexicans who are in the country illegally, and with the sole intention of being here to commit those crimes.

It's gotten so bad that one of the most vocal voices for something to be done, is that of Legal Mexican immigrants, who in many cases have been victims of the crime.

What happend? When did we become so entitled and high and mighty to say fuck the mexicans they are all pieces of shit?

If they are here illegally, sponging off of community resources, committing crimes, then yes, they are pieces of shit.

Fucking Americans need to take responsibility for themselves and stop feeling so entitled.

What entitlement are you talking about, retard? It's wrong to not want people here illegally? It's wrong to be concerned with the fact that in many of these communities the crime has gotten so bad that citizens of this country can't let their fucking kids outside, or that some housewife isn't allowed out after dark without her husband?

You are a fucking idiot.

Work Hard, Make Money, Make a better Life for yourself - Isn't that what most illegals are trying to do?

The ones that are here for those reasons, are usually the same ones that jump through the hoops, and are actually on a path to become a citizen. Noone is saying that people shouldn't be able to come here, on the contrary, we are saying that it needs to be done legally.

Now yes there are the illegals that cause problems and yes fuck them send them home but then there are also Whites and Legals that cause problems.

When "legal" white people cause problems, they are dealt with through the "system". When an Illegal Alien causes problems, they usually just get the catch and release treatment.

Half the shit i have read on this thread is just fucking sad.

That is because you are too fucking stupid to comprehend the "real issue" at hand.

And i am from Mexican decent and married into an illegal family and i can tell you they work their asses off and Love this country probably more then most of the people that are legals.

So, now the real reason for your argument comes out. You know "illegals"?

There is a good chance that the people that you know are genuinely good, and hard working people. I'm sure that there are probably millions here that are Illegals that have never caused a single problem in society, work their asses off everyday, and just want to take care of their families.

Unfortunately for them, the "younger" generation of illegals is here to be little more than shit stains on society, they earn their money selling drugs, and don't think twice about assaulting or killing someone that they disagree with, or have an issue with.

Maybe if the Illegals themselves could get a handle on the fucking asshole illegals running around dealing, killing, and kidnapping, profiling Mexicans as a whole wouldn't be necessary in places like AZ and TX.

 

[popeye]

OMG! I just got back from a racial incident and I am so pissed...I think I'll throw water bottles at the cops!1!!!!!! I just went down to get a passport and I WAS ASKED TO PROVE THAT I WAS A US CITIZEN!!!!!!!111 WTF are they racist against russian, scotish, italian and native american mixed people??????

To top that off I just hired a few people for my small loan company and the government demanded that I had them complete a form I-9 TO PROVE THAT THEY ARE US CITIZENS!!

This whole country is nothing but fucking racist!

fuckin idiots

 

[Moldingbox]

JustFU- Your right on alot of your points i agree with you i made broad general statments about society as a whole just like everyone is doing about illegal's the peopole i do know tried to immigrate legally and they system is completly fucked if you are from Mexico they have lived here for 22 years paid taxes and paid for everything they could and are just now (because their son can sponser them) getting citizenship.

Your are completly right that the younger rougher fuck head mexicans ruin it for everyone and it is unfortunante that mexican's as a whole get thrown into the group

as far as reading every post no your right i didn't read the entire thing my head starting hurting after page 1 so i just jumped to conclusions.

as far as "catch and Release" the illegals i have heard of that do the fucked up things serve the same sentence as the legal people but at the end they get deported.

The entitled mentality i was speaking of was probably not right to bring up in this thread it is a culmination of the "illegal" threat along with the all the other shit that is going through right now so yes "retard?" (don't understand the question mark) is probably correct in that sense.

rgordon83- the system is fucked as i said above there in essence is no line that Mexicans can jump in to wait and i am not an immigrant i was born and rasied here never said i was an immigrant (sorry spelling) i just said i was of mexican decent.