The Merchant/Advertiser Scrubbing and Shaving List

xmcp123 said:
The company is run by Herb Vest, who also runs a company that deals with ROI Optimization, which can be pretty easily ported to scrubbing/shaving.
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Delete this if you think it's too off topic but I'm curious if you know the name of the ROI company? If it's who I think it is I can tell you that side of the business has nothing to do with any scrubbing or shaving. How long ago was it you experienced this?
 


bb_wolfe said:
Since someone is obviously going to start a shitstorm with some uneducated post about so-and-so offer scrubbing, Ad Hustler has a great post that gets you past the "are they are aren't they scrubbing" question.

Maybe it'd be a good idea for some folks who are on the fence about their offer to try this first: Ad Hustler Article In Feedfront Magazine June 2009 | Ad Hustler
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That might work for email submits, it's not really feasible for rebills, which is where most of the problems lie.
 
machinecontrol said:
That might work for email submits, it's not really feasible for rebills, which is where most of the problems lie.
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It wouldn't work for anything to be honest. Most email submit companies employ a technology that tells them if the zip is within 50 miles of the IP address they are using, so they can catch fraud.

Everyone has some form of data validation to ensure they get valid data that you wouldnt be able to replicate the conversions without knowing the validation rules.
 
machinecontrol said:
That might work for email submits, it's not really feasible for rebills, which is where most of the problems lie.
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The problems lie all over....email submits, lead gen, rebills, everything...if your creative you can actually test each of these to some degree.

mkrongel said:
It wouldn't work for anything to be honest. Most email submit companies employ a technology that tells them if the zip is within 50 miles of the IP address they are using, so they can catch fraud.

Everyone has some form of data validation to ensure they get valid data that you wouldnt be able to replicate the conversions without knowing the validation rules.
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This is understood....BUT...if this is the case, why is this not in the terms of the offer? If the offer pays on zip submit it should pay on ANY zip submit (assuming that IP wasn't already logged). The advertiser is supposed to be taking the risk....they get cheap front end traffic and hope it backs out. They should NOT be scrubbing out a zip they don't like or that doesn't match the IP unless they are going to state that in their terms to us affiliates.

If advertisers would be more straight up with affiliates I bet you they would get better quality from us.
 
narsticle said:
The problems lie all over....email submits, lead gen, rebills, everything...if your creative you can actually test each of these to some degree.



This is understood....BUT...if this is the case, why is this not in the terms of the offer? If the offer pays on zip submit it should pay on ANY zip submit (assuming that IP wasn't already logged). The advertiser is supposed to be taking the risk....they get cheap front end traffic and hope it backs out. They should NOT be scrubbing out a zip they don't like or that doesn't match the IP unless they are going to state that in their terms to us affiliates.

If advertisers would be more straight up with affiliates I bet you they would get better quality from us.
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they do it to cut fraud. If programs like gopCPA and other email submit programs that are designed to cheat the advertiser didnt exist, then they might not employ tech to ensure the user is real.

It wouldn't be in the terms because you should be sending users who are entering valid information, its something some advertisers do but not all.

On lead gen forms like debt people may scrub out for under $10K in debt, or if the zip doesnt match the area code, like if someone put they live in miami but put a 212 area code that lead would be suspicious and probably filtered out.
 
I wonder if they went as far as matching first , last name,phone number, zip, etc. combination to yellow pages database..
 
So zip, email submit offers where created to lure publishers in by "easiness" of getting zip or email entered , while they are not getting paid unless personal info on form on page 5 matches or satisfies advertisers. So advertisers are paying <$1 for info that is suppose to be worth a lot more. Great... Well then they deserve being framed back.. I guess. And no I'm not doing submits..
 
Don't go off topic here because the idea is great. Stick to just listing the offers in question with proof/data to back it up. Maybe also putting up a few rules to keep it organized may be a good call, such as only list campaigns YOU have worked with that YOU have proof/data to back up, leave the rumors or the ones your pals have mentioned out of it. If they want to share that info, let them post it themselves, or give you the info so you can post it on their behalf.

Also don't go making shit up about an offer just because you did some shady shit on it and they refused to pay you because of that, you'll only end up ruining your credibility if Shady goes through it because he's pretttttty fuckin good at weeding out the liars and scammers right away and you'll end up getting banned too.

Aside for those few things, and don't just comment about the idea being good, post up your stuff so he's not the only one doing it (like I just did -- durka durka).
 
How can anyone prove shaving though? It's impossible. The only way to 100% prove it is to get 50 guys to all agree to use their credit card and fire a pixel on a rebill. Then we all post our results here. Anything less than 50 conversions is proof.

This exercise can be documented, and posted here for full effect. Definitive proof including our names, times of sale, and overall stats would be indisputable proof and could in theory be taken to an Advertiser and threatened with global exposure.
 
Roundabout said:
How can anyone prove shaving though? It's impossible. The only way to 100% prove it is to get 50 guys to all agree to use their credit card and fire a pixel on a rebill. Then we all post our results here. Anything less than 50 conversions is proof.

This exercise can be documented, and posted here for full effect. Definitive proof including our names, times of sale, and overall stats would be indisputable proof and could in theory be taken to an Advertiser and threatened with global exposure.
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that's hardcore, but i'd say DO IT!!! :thefinger:
 
I think this is a good idea but I doubt people will really spend the time and do this. Most of the people who are concerned about it anyways are just n00bs making outright bullshit insignificant claims (see affiliatearmy's retarded post). Maybe you should setup a small script that allows us to easily submit a complaint against an advertiser, upload screenshots, and put detailed information in anonymously..
 
Roundabout said:
How can anyone prove shaving though? It's impossible. The only way to 100% prove it is to get 50 guys to all agree to use their credit card and fire a pixel on a rebill. Then we all post our results here. Anything less than 50 conversions is proof.

This exercise can be documented, and posted here for full effect. Definitive proof including our names, times of sale, and overall stats would be indisputable proof and could in theory be taken to an Advertiser and threatened with global exposure.
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You can do all the testing yourself. Just buy a stack of prepaid credit cards.
 
_poto_ said:
You can do all the testing yourself. Just buy a stack of prepaid credit cards.
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Or use the PayPal plug-in, which allows you to create unlimited VCCs :) You would have to keep the information anonymous as there are a lot of advertisers browsing on here..
 
mkrongel said:
they do it to cut fraud. If programs like gopCPA and other email submit programs that are designed to cheat the advertiser didnt exist, then they might not employ tech to ensure the user is real.

It wouldn't be in the terms because you should be sending users who are entering valid information, its something some advertisers do but not all.

On lead gen forms like debt people may scrub out for under $10K in debt, or if the zip doesnt match the area code, like if someone put they live in miami but put a 212 area code that lead would be suspicious and probably filtered out.
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I bet the advertister still makes a profit on quite a few leads they scrub out for being in the wrong areas.
 
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