You like Muslims? Guess what happens when the cult's population grows?

::sigh::

When Christianity starts killing innocent people again according to the Bible's law on a massive scale, be sure to let me know. Next time someone screams "Our Father, which art in Heaven" before blowing themselves up, be sure to let me know. The next time a priest tries to smuggle box cutters in his shoes on an airplane, be sure to let me know.

Until then, let's shut the fuck up and stop being careless when one jackass decides to take an unnecessary shot at Islam. Yeah, he's a douche, this thread should have been closed after that was established.

You are totally right concerning your ideas in this thread...however I don't think the potshot by OP at islam was careless or unneccessary. Anti-Christian threads pop up all the time on this board with no such backlash.

These wana be athiest can't bash Christianity and then turn around and defend Islam because they all of a sudden became tolerant. It makes them look very, very stupid.
 


FFS

At no point did I make any statement that says ALL Iranians are this or that. At no point did I say they all support stonings, or hate the West or anything else. That would be ridiculous. Learn to fucking read.

No, I have not been proven wrong, lol. He says stonings dont happen anymore, yet Amnesty International says they do. He must be right, because he's Iranian!

Its retarded that I am accused of prejudice and painting all Muslims with the same brush, just because they are Muslims (how many times have I said that I am not criticising individual Muslims, but the belief system and the political system? obviously different Muslims will have their different individual views!),
yet thats exactly what you'r doing to me! ie just because I criticise Islam and Islamism people assume I hate all Muslims, think they're all terrorists and rapists and are fundamentalists. Again and again I've explained that I dont think that, that nothing could be further from the truth. Yet, guerilla, you have the reading comprehension of a 10 year old and clearly are not too bright, because you've not understood the most basic statements that I've made.

And yes, I do have Iranian/persian friends, you retard, they are similar to "Making Money" above.
They think Ahmadinejad is a tool and stoning is wrong. Most people in Iran did vote for A though.
Making Money the exception? Wow, my world is turned upside down. How do I get through your ridiculous prejudice to explain that I dont think all Iranians are the same? Fuck, you're pathetic inability to read really fucking pisses me off, because unfortunately its representative of most people's blind boneheadness. You'd think a child could understand what I am saying, yet most adults are too lost in their own bullshit to grasp the meaning of a few sentences that contradict their agenda.

You're arguing with people who just like to take things personally, which leads them to just assume you have the worst intentions and thoughts. They then bring these nonexistent beliefs you have up in argument to try and use against you.

It's just Wickedfire, nobody argues with facts here.

popeye said:
You are totally right concerning your ideas in this thread...however I don't think the potshot by OP at islam was careless or unneccessary. Anti-Christian threads pop up all the time on this board with no such backlash.

By careless and unnecessary I mean the response taking a shot at Christianity (ie pointlessly changing what this already stupid thread was about).

You need to really start reading your responses over before you hit Submit Reply. You come off as so biased your statements have no worth, nobody listens or takes your word for anything. I'm honestly not trying to be a dick, I'm much more "conservative" myself than liberal and I don't even listen to what you're saying most of the time. How can you expect to argue with anybody when nobody takes you seriously?

Go back and this thread and read all of UnripeArbiter's posts. Nobody takes that guy seriously, he's loco. You and hellblazer are like that, but on the complete flip-side (he's a liberal atheist whereas you guys are conservative Christians).
 
While I'd understand something like that happening in Egypt because of the high rape and sexual violence rate there. I don't think it's the case in Morocco. I'm originally Moroccan, and I spent a big part of my life there. I'm sorry if your friends were harassed. but I think that's an exception, not the rule.

Morphy, again, I am in no way painting all Moroccans with the same brush and perhaps it is the exception not the rule (curious though what you say about Egypt.. are Egyptians going to say the opposite and point the finger at Moroccans?, but so that you and other dont think I am making this up, here's some other people pretty much confirming what I said. Actually, it was after I read this article that I asked some female friends about it and they confirmed thats how it was for them in some cities. In Morocco it was better in less touristy places, in the country they did not get hassled.

The Sydney Morning Herald Blogs: Travel

Jane wrote to me a few weeks ago to suggest this topic, saying she was shocked at the hard time she'd been given while travelling by herself through countries such as Morocco and Egypt. In Egypt she was on a Nile cruise, but still got hassled whenever she stepped off her boat full of English tourists.

"When I managed to escape the confines of my floating little Manchester and actually go into the port towns (Luxor, Aswan), the locals were terrifying," Jane writes. "I'm not a stupid traveller, nor a disrespectful traveller. But I was spat at, called a white bitch and hassled by one guy who went into great detail about what he and his four mates would like to do to me.

"With this in mind, when I flew into Morocco last week I decided to keep to daylight hours as much as possible and stick to only touristy spots. Even so, on my penultimate day in Casablanca, while walking to Hassan II Mosque, a guy walked up next to me and shoved his exposed tackle against my thigh while trying to herd me down another street. This was about 11am on a main road."

The worst place I've been for harassment is Casablanca in Morocco. Like the story from Jane, almost every man I passed spat on me or at me. I had lots of really scary occasions where men followed me around for hours. Even the male hostel manager attacked me in the ladies bathroom and broke into my dorm room to try the same thing.

I later met an English girl who was living in Morocco and she believed the reason men act in this way toward western women was because the only time they are exposed to 'white girls' is through porn. So they automatically assume that we are up for what the porn stars do, and are either disgusted (hence the spitting) or keen to get a piece of the action (hence the gropes).

maybe they were dressed indescreetly, I dont know. Others in the comments didn't have the same problem.
 
Jasenovac:
Jasenovac concentration camp - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Targeted all non-Catholics in the region. Further similar examples can be drawn from the Bosnian wars of the 90's, but nothing on this scale.

yep, the Croat Ustasa were way fucked up:

Throughout Europe, Catholic groups had carried out atrocities during the Second World War. The Croat Ustasha, overwhelmingly Catholic, ultra-nationalist and fascist outdid the Nazis in their barbarism against Orthodox Serbs and partisans, and assisted in exterminating Jews. Some of their leaders, who together were responsible for hundreds of thousands of murders, were Franciscans. One, the commandant of Jasenovac concentration camp, known as "Brother Devil", accounted for 40,000 lives or more. Other churchmen also found common cause with the Nazis. The President of Slovakia, Joseph Tiso, was a leading Nazi responsible for setting up concentration camps in his country. But this was not his only vocation, For President Tiso was also a Roman Catholic Priest. He was executed for his crimes in 1946. Other bishops and priests were responsible for many thousands of deaths, having collaborated freely with the Nazi authorities. Here is, Dr Joachim Kahl, an ex pastor and German Church historian on the Catholic fascist movement in Croatia which flourished between1941 and 1944:

The Ustaša, as this terrorist organisation was called, was responsible for the forcible conversion of some 240,000 Orthodox Serbs to Roman Catholicismand for putting about 750,000 of these people to death. There was, from the very beginning, close collaboration between the Catholic clergy and the Ustaša. Archbishop Stepinac, whom the Vatican appointed in in 1942 to be the spiritual leader of the Ustaša, had a place, together with ten of his clergy, in the Ustaša parliament. Priests were also employed as police chiefs and as officers in the personal body-guard of the fanatical Croation head of state, Pavelic. Nuns marched in military parades immediately behind the soldiers, their arms raised in the fascist salute. Abbesses were decorated with the Ustaša order. The most cruel part of this movement was played, however, by the Fransiscans, whose monaseries had for some time been used as arsenals. Several monks and priests agreed to work as executioners in the hastily set p concentration camps to which the Orthodox Serbs were sent for mass execution by decapitation. These massacres were so brutal that even Croatia's allies, the German Nazis, protested against them and petitions were sent to the Vatican. Pope Pius XII, however, said nothing, just as he also said nothing about Auschwitz. It was not until some ten years later, in 1953, that he broke his silence by promoting Archbishop Stepinac, who, as one of those bearing the greatest guilt, had been sentenced\by the Supreme People's Court of Yugoslavia to sixteen years' forced labour, to the rank of Cardinal for his "great services" to the Church.
Christianity and its traditional discrimination in favour of Right Wing Politics

Croatia is still really racist (mandatory disclaimer: not all Croats are racist! I have Croat friends who are awesome!). A mate of mine with darkish skin - he's a Lebanese Muslim - was bottled in the head by a neo-nazi kid while sitting in a cafe on a date with a local girl there. the neo-nazi movement is huge.
anyway, off topic.. I am just even less fond of neo-nazis then I am of militant Islamists.
 
Listen Dispel, im educating you about a country that I know a lot about. You believe anything you read which is the reason of your lack of knowledge. Listen, my entire family lives in Iran, I only have my parents, brother and sister in America. The country does not stone people anymore, regardless of what you hear or read alright. When I went to Iran I asked all of my relatives about this and they all felt humiliated that the media portrays our country like this. Im not saying the country is perfect, it's not. Almost everyone wants the country to go back the way it was in the 70's. And do you even know why Iran hates America so much? I forgot which year it was but a king by the name of Mossadeg (excuse my spelling if incorrect) was elected but didnt have to much interest in doing oil trade with America, so america sent troops to Mossadeg's front door and killed him in front of his family. And another very religious king got put in place and continued the islamic revolution. Now put yourself in a perspective of someone living in Iran. Now don't get me wrong, I love America to death, especially southern cali, I would never move anywhere else. But at the end of the day you and everyone else have all of their facts wrong about Iran, the people and the culture.
 
Listen Dispel, im educating you about a country that I know a lot about. You believe anything you read which is the reason of your lack of knowledge. Listen, my entire family lives in Iran, I only have my parents, brother and sister in America. The country does not stone people anymore, regardless of what you hear or read alright. When I went to Iran I asked all of my relatives about this and they all felt humiliated that the media portrays our country like this. Im not saying the country is perfect, it's not. Almost everyone wants the country to go back the way it was in the 70's. And do you even know why Iran hates America so much? I forgot which year it was but a king by the name of Mossadeg (excuse my spelling if incorrect) was elected but didnt have to much interest in doing oil trade with America, so america sent troops to Mossadeg's front door and killed him in front of his family. And another very religious king got put in place and continued the islamic revolution. Now put yourself in a perspective of someone living in Iran. Now don't get me wrong, I love America to death, especially southern cali, I would never move anywhere else. But at the end of the day you and everyone else have all of their facts wrong about Iran, the people and the culture.


Making Money, yep, I know about how the Americans installed the Shah after killing the king. That was retarded. I am also aware most people did not support the Islamic revolution - there were left-wing and liberal forces in the initial rebellion too, but the Islamists were brutal and quickly seized power and crushed the opposition.

Regarding the Iranian people, I would say for a start that I have respect for the country because of its history. They had a thriving and peaceful civilization when Islam came to its doorstep, on the back of Arabian horses, swords in hand of newly converted tribesmen who only just stopped burying their unwanted female babies alive.
In my opinion Zoroastrianism was also a great mono-theistic religion.
Its a place rich in history and culture and I may also say has very beautiful women.

My criticism is first and foremost of the Clerical regime, secondly of the politicians and the IRGC, thirdly of the religiously conversative lot that still do approve of certain practices that are backward and linked to Islam.

Sorry, I am going to take Amnesty INternational's word over yours on stoning. It may happen in some backward little village you've never heard of, but its happening somewhere. And where did it come from? It was made law in 1983, taken straight from Sharia. The people who installed that law and brainwashed others to follow it are the ones that I have a problem with. Like you said - only a minority supported the Islamists in the revolution - proving that only a brutal minority is necessary to take a country back to the Dark Ages!! You dont need most peolpe to want Sharia for Sharia to be implemented!

Most people still voted for the ultra-conservative Ahmadinejad too. He said he'll clean up the fattened clerics who've been stuffing their pockets and take the revolution back to its roots. He also said he'll stick it to America and continue the nuclear program. And despite his abismal economic performance people still voted for him, so clearly his message has many supporters. Even though he thinks the 12th Imams talks to him and he's gone and built that railroad and mosque to prepare for his return etc, which all sounds a bit crazy, people voted for him.

No way am I saying that a woman cant walk down the street there without being raped. Yet people are still being hanged for homosexuality. Obviously, much like in America, there are people with very different beliefs there. But if I was criticizing secular democracy and brought up America as an example and started criticizing the high levels of crime, drug use, abortion, the pornography it would be silly to assume that I think ALL Americans are drug using criminals or approve of these things. Yet these things are linked - secular democracy allows pornography and hold civil liberties high, which has certain negative consequences. Likewise if I am criticizing the Sharia practice of stoning, which still happens in Nigeria, Somalia, Afghanistan, Iran etc, it does not at all mean I am tarnishing all Iranians as supporters of the practice. That would be ridiculous and you'd have to be as dumb as Guerilla to assume that.
 
Oh, and btw, it is better to have a debate like this, calmly and with evidence, then to throw around insults and generalisations with nothing to back it up. As I've said from the beginning - I am all for dialog, constructive criticism and debate. I am not bashing this group or that simply for the purpose of having a go and filling all high and mighty about it. That serves nothing but the ego.

This thread has a rather unfortunate title and its regretable that the discussion is being held in the shadow of the assumptions it holds. Just produces unnecessary preconceptions and people stumble in here on an aggressive footing for this belief or that.
 
Oh, and btw, it is better to have a debate like this, calmly and with evidence, then to throw around insults and generalisations with nothing to back it up. As I've said from the beginning - I am all for dialog, constructive criticism and debate. I am not bashing this group or that simply for the purpose of having a go and filling all high and mighty about it. That serves nothing but the ego.

^This.
 
Oh, and btw, it is better to have a debate like this, calmly and with evidence, then to throw around insults and generalisations with nothing to back it up. As I've said from the beginning - I am all for dialog, constructive criticism and debate. I am not bashing this group or that simply for the purpose of having a go and filling all high and mighty about it. That serves nothing but the ego.

This thread has a rather unfortunate title and its regretable that the discussion is being held in the shadow of the assumptions it holds. Just produces unnecessary preconceptions and people stumble in here on an aggressive footing for this belief or that.

Your absolutely right.
 
And btw, my apologies for the insults. That wasn't right of me to say those things. But your actually very knowledgeable. And it's not your fault if you dont know the whole story, your just going off of what your reading which is absolutely understandable.
 
Its ironic that Muslims complain about this. Most Muslim countries dont allow the building of churches. Qatar built their first one last year - it does not have a cross or a bell or any Christian symbol on it. under the swiss proposal its still fine to build mosques under the Swiss proposal, just not minarets.

IMO the "But they dont allow it either!" excuse doesn't count. We are tolerant towards each other and I don't really care what religion each one of us believes in. Do we really want to turn ourselves into the christian version of saudi arabia by telling other cultures what they can and cannot do? I'd rather have all imigrants pass through a 1-2 year course in german and western culture before they'd get permanent resident passes. The problem in Europe is the lack of integration of eastern imigrants, not their religion).

BTW: Minarets here in Switzerland: 4. Muslims here: 300-400k estimated. Any other religion/atheists:6+ Million. Minarets used for prayers: 0.

They should've banned these:
afghan-women-vote.jpg


and not minarets. (yes, in Paris there are quite a few women walking around like this and its comparable to having you wear a black skimask anywhere you go. Its just frightening bc any criminal could hide underneath one of these and you'd never know who actually did cause the trouble)