Does Liberalism Make You Fuckin Stupid?
- Thread starter popeye
- Start date
So your the person I should listen to when it comes to sprituallity ? Your just some dumb fuck idiot kid on the web. Give me proof that my beliefs are wrong! You and the "Real" scientist can't even prove how the earth was born. Why should I listen to you.
P.S I can't provide proof that my position is correct, please provide solid evidence that yours is.......or shut the fuck up.
I remember reading a article where some university held a study in London if I recall correctly and the results were that people who are liberals, atheists, and males combined actually have a higher IQ then the majority of the population.
From Religiosity and intelligence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
In 2008, intelligence researcher Helmuth Nyborg examined whether IQ relates to denomination and income, using representative data from the National Longitudinal Study of Youth, which includes intelligence tests on a representative selection of American youth, where they have also replied to questions about religious belief. His results, published in the scientific journal Intelligence demonstrated that on average, Atheists scored 1.95 IQ points higher than Agnostics, 3.82 points higher than Liberal persuasions, and 5.89 IQ points higher than Dogmatic persuasions. [4] "I'm not saying that believing in God makes you dumber. My hypothesis is that people with a low intelligence are more easily drawn toward religions, which give answers that are certain, while people with a high intelligence are more skeptical," says the professor.[5]
Liberals, if I got this right, are the ones that want everyone covered for medical care.
Jesus man, (pardon the pun) even crazzzzy Conservatives in Europe would go nowhere near the health issue as there would be blue murder if you took our universal health care away.
But regardless, lets slap some minor argument on-top of all this and thus by winning the point prove that all liberals are crazy and by derivation so are their policies.
Pass the popcorn.
Jesus man, (pardon the pun) even crazzzzy Conservatives in Europe would go nowhere near the health issue as there would be blue murder if you took our universal health care away.
But regardless, lets slap some minor argument on-top of all this and thus by winning the point prove that all liberals are crazy and by derivation so are their policies.
Pass the popcorn.
of anything really. Just like the proof of your alleged military service and your alleged children. You're as much of a lie as The Bible.
This is a great discussion, Jefferson is my favorite founding father. To say that his views are not important is sad really, considering where we are and how far removed we are from this guy.
He was obviously not an atheist and while he had no problems with Christianity as a whole, he was not a Christian (he didn't buy the Jesus sun god hijacking as presented by papajohn56). This doesn't mean he was some asshole atheist. To argue that he was an atheist is one of the worst and most dishonest positions anyone could ever take. Not one of the signers of the Constitution was an atheist and almost all of them were Christians, with some of the more prominent ones being Deists by other people's definitions, even though they called it their own form of religion.
Just because you're not Christian does NOT mean you disagree with all of its teachings or principles, especially with somebody of the caliber of Jefferson. And it most certainly doesn't mean that you don't believe in God. Not one founding father was even close to an atheist and it IS extremely important. It's called history. It's what this country was founded on, and it's a big part of what brought it from 3rd world to 1st world in 1 century. And now the reverse is bringing it back to 3rd world. It's freaking obvious. History and education IS important to free, sovereign citizens - it is unimportant to slaves.
He was obviously not an atheist and while he had no problems with Christianity as a whole, he was not a Christian (he didn't buy the Jesus sun god hijacking as presented by papajohn56). This doesn't mean he was some asshole atheist. To argue that he was an atheist is one of the worst and most dishonest positions anyone could ever take. Not one of the signers of the Constitution was an atheist and almost all of them were Christians, with some of the more prominent ones being Deists by other people's definitions, even though they called it their own form of religion.
Just because you're not Christian does NOT mean you disagree with all of its teachings or principles, especially with somebody of the caliber of Jefferson. And it most certainly doesn't mean that you don't believe in God. Not one founding father was even close to an atheist and it IS extremely important. It's called history. It's what this country was founded on, and it's a big part of what brought it from 3rd world to 1st world in 1 century. And now the reverse is bringing it back to 3rd world. It's freaking obvious. History and education IS important to free, sovereign citizens - it is unimportant to slaves.
thank god Im from Sweden
ahh
When I see these kind of discussion I feel so lucky f being raised in Scandinavia =)
Being religious in any form or shape here just don't happen...
ahh
When I see these kind of discussion I feel so lucky f being raised in Scandinavia =)
Being religious in any form or shape here just don't happen...
The problem I have with all the so called "students of T.J" is the fact that they want to ignore what he has stated about himself concerning chritianity. I have posted quotes from him earlier in this post. These quotes do prove that he considers Jesus something more than an ordinary man. Please give me your take on this. Please dont ignore his quotes. To ignore the facts just proves my point even more.
your from where? Scandinavia? where is that? Is that some country the US liberated?
I'm not trying to pwn him, there's a lot of things I agree with popeye and hellblazer on, mostly fiscal issues and economics, though I may be more laissez-faire.
He believed Jesus existed, but not that he was the savior or son of God. He followed his teachings of peace, live and let live, freedom, and more, but wasn't a believer in the trinity. He was a unitarian just in that sense; there is only God, the holy spirit and Jesus are important, but are not a part of God in the traditional sense that Christianity portrays them.
I do respect your opinion but I have posted quotes from T.J. proving his beliefs in Jesus. Please respond with your opinion concerning those quotes from him.
"I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus." [Letter to Benjamin Rush April 21, 1803]
A "real Christian"........ Please argue away thsi quote before you go any further with this argument. If you can't explain why T.J. proclaimed himself a Christian, than you are out of this argument.
" . . . he saw Christianity as the highest expression of natural religion and Jesus as an incomparably great moral teacher. He was not an orthodox Christian because he rejected, among other things, the doctrines that Jesus was the promised Messiah and the incarnate Son of God."
He believed in the teachers of Jesus. He did not, however, believe . . . "the doctrines that Jesus was the promised Messiah and the incarnate Son of God."
As was stated in the same passage, this was fairly typical in the day, which allowed him to classify himself as a " . . .real Christian . . . "
I think (yes, I think, there's no certainty in this debate on either side) he was moreso calling out contemporary Christians at the time, as hypocrites. He was saying he was more virtuous than them, and therefore more of a follower of the teachings, yet it was ironic because he didn't believe that Jesus was the savior.
I would agree. Thomas Jefferson was many things, but stupid wasn't one of them. My take on those quotes is this:
He understands that Jesus was a big deal, did many great things, helped change the face of the world and his teachings have absolutely had a positive effect on people's lives. However, with that said I don't think he would claim that you need to believe in Jesus to be saved. That is where people like Jefferson differ from most Christians. Also, he realizes a lot of the church teachings of Jesus (perhaps some in the Bible, obviously debatable) have been tweaked and used for the benefit of the church. He has quotes like this:
"The clergy converted the simple teachings of Jesus into an engine for enslaving mankind and adulterated by artificial constructions into a contrivance to filch wealth and power to themselves...these clergy, in fact, constitute the real Anti-Christ."
"Christianity...(has become) the most perverted system that ever shone on man. ...Rogueries, absurdities and untruths were perpetrated upon the teachings of Jesus by a large band of dupes and importers led by Paul, the first great corrupter of the teaching of Jesus."
So he understands what happened with Jesus. He understands how the church used Jesus to trick people into being saved and enslave them. That is what I think he is saying. It's obviously extremely hard to explain this interpretation to most Christians because most Christians don't agree with it. They say you need Jesus to be saved, but Jefferson takes a much more refined approach IMO. And he is not the only one to have this view. But who knows, maybe he was wrong on such a view, but I am almost certain this was his view.
I could talk about it more, but I don't think it matters to most people and that is why he is okay with quoting the teachings of Jesus and going along with them. They are obviously good teachings. It is the deification part of Jesus that Jefferson has problems with IMO. Here is another quote I like from him:
"But those facts in the Bible which contradict the laws of nature, must be examined with more care, and under a variety of faces. Here you must recur to the pretensions of the writer to inspiration from God.
Examine upon what evidence his pretensions are founded, and whether that evidence is so strong, as that its falsehood would be more improbable than a change in the laws of nature, in the case he relates."
He had a much more precise eye than most Christians have these days. He wasn't an all or nothing kind of guy. He was a precise scholar and very well read. He knew history and he knew the early church. I think I can understand where he is coming from because I have studied all these topics heavily, as I'm sure you have done some of your own.
Anyhow, all in all I think Jefferson would have been a staunch supporter for Christianity, at least what it was 200 years ago. He would not be a fan of the televangelist / evangelical BS that has corrupted Christianity in our present day, which I am sure you're most likely not a fan of either. That is my take on it. I could go on for hours about this stuff.
PS: I think papajohn56 gets what Jefferson was about and understands the dynamics.