What an unfortunate situation. Old man was just defending his property and his trailer. Sadly, he did shoot at them, which you're not supposed to do unless your life is in immediate danger. Either way, hope he gets off and the thieves rot in jail.
Illegal immigrants steal trailer from old man, one gets shot. Old man goes to jail.
- Thread starter jdomaha
- Start date
Whoa there Adolf... Even arabs stop at cutting a thief's hand off. It's just a fucking trailer, chill out :rasta:
Worried about someone stealing it? get insurance, or a dog, or one of those traffic boots, even a hidden gps tracker that you charge every day if you're really paranoid, but just leaving it out there waiting for someone to take it so you can go off like billy the kid on a public road is insane.
I'd like to see the outcry against the old man if a stray bullet would've hit a kid on a bike. It sucks that they stole from him but his reaction was really fucking dumb.
Wanting criminals to suffer the consequences of their actions don't make him Hitler, you need to simply shut your face. Some people can't afford insurance, and those fancy anti-theft toys cost money, which this old man or anyone for that matter might not be able to afford. Its difficult for people to put themselves in a desperate mans shoes, who may need his tools, truck, etc to provide, and he doesn't have extra money to spare on alarm systems, high priced insurace.
yeah you're right, what was I thinking? the answer is definitely shooting a thief in the back on the spot. Wanna come test drive my car? I'll cut you a good deal...
Those of you concerned over using excessive force to defend property may benefit from an analogy.
Owned property requires some resource of time, money, or other property to obtain. All of these can be distilled down into fractions of a person's life.
If it takes a person 6 months earnings to pay off their trailer, then stealing that property is akin to taking 6 months of one's life. We can leave insurance aside since not everyone has all property insured, nor is insurance a perfect solution for replacing property (think irreplaceable antiques, ect. that still cost money or time to acquire).
Stealing valuable property from an individual who put in a part of their life for the privilege and ability to own it, is akin to taking their life.
I don't advocate deadly force for every instance of theft, but maybe it will help some of the doubters understand why it was this old man's first thought to defend his property as though it was his life.
Owned property requires some resource of time, money, or other property to obtain. All of these can be distilled down into fractions of a person's life.
If it takes a person 6 months earnings to pay off their trailer, then stealing that property is akin to taking 6 months of one's life. We can leave insurance aside since not everyone has all property insured, nor is insurance a perfect solution for replacing property (think irreplaceable antiques, ect. that still cost money or time to acquire).
Stealing valuable property from an individual who put in a part of their life for the privilege and ability to own it, is akin to taking their life.
I don't advocate deadly force for every instance of theft, but maybe it will help some of the doubters understand why it was this old man's first thought to defend his property as though it was his life.
We call it the "Make My Day" law because it sounds cooler:
Castle doctrine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
However, it looks like it only applies to B&E with intent to steal, murder, rape or kidnap. If they cut the lock on your trailer and hooked it up in the front yard I don't believe MMD would apply. If they broke into your house to get the keys, then it does.
It is interesting that the guy got shot in the face if they were "running away". Lends credence to the "almost ran me over" defense, although I suppose he could've been shooting from the front yard as they drove past.
Seems excessive to me for a flatbed trailer. I witnessed a hit and run once; called the cops with the license plate and they had tracked the guy down within an hour. A truck with a flatbed probably isn't real uncommon in Wheat Ridge, but I can say that there are quite a few Wheat Ridge patrol cars out there, spotting the stolen one shouldn't be difficult.
Oh well, I'm in Denver county and already used up my jury duty this year. Let's go tear up Wheat Ridge like Oakland.
Interesting point Chamberlain, and in other examples of islamic judicial temperance a woman in Iran is facing death by stoning for adultery (there is the possibility of a reprieve only because of the embarrassment iran is facing in the international community).
Well by "even the.." I was implying that they are far less civilized for such temperance. I agree with you on the point.
Listen, I'm in Texas and I;d be the first to drop someone if they broke into my home on self-defense but if they took a car, out on the public road and are fleeing, it doesn't justify shooting to kill.
I've had cars stolen from me and it sucks, I've also known kids in high school who took cars for joy rides and they deserved some jail, not to get shot in the back. punishment should fit the crime.
Listen, I'm in Texas and I;d be the first to drop someone if they broke into my home on self-defense but if they took a car, out on the public road and are fleeing, it doesn't justify shooting to kill.
I've had cars stolen from me and it sucks, I've also known kids in high school who took cars for joy rides and they deserved some jail, not to get shot in the back. punishment should fit the crime.
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Punishment fitting the crime would reasonable if there was a reasonable expectation that the police and courts would apply any kind of punishment. If the geezer had instead gone in and called the cops there wouldn't have been some high speed chase to apprehend the thieves, they would have sent a cruiser over 40 minutes later to take a report, told him "we'll keep an eye out for it" and that would probably been about it. Meanwhile the repeat offenders would have gone out stealing (or worse) the results of yet another person's time, labor, and money. Auto (or trailer theft) may not warrant a death sentence but you can't put the cat back in the bag or the shell casing back in the shotgun as the case may be, and I'm not going to cry over some would be career criminal that didn't properly weigh the cost/benefit analysis of his actions.
Gramps got his trailer stolen, well, life ain't fair.
Some piece of shit got shot in the face for a two hundred dollar score, well, life ain't fair.
Now it looks like gramps is going to be on trial for his life, so I guess the them of this story is, life ain't fair.
I completely disagree.
I think that if someone is stealing something of significant value from you or your property you have a right to protect yourself and your possessions. That includes the right to use deadly force so long as you act in a responsible manner. For example, if someone is stealing your trailer and you yell at them to stop and they don't and then (apparently) try to run you over you can shoot them and shoot to kill. That should be totally fine.
On the other hand, if you live in densely populated urban area and someone breaks into your apartment and steals a laptop you shouldnt just empty a magazine of FMJ ammo at them since your actions could very easily result in a neighbor getting shot. Essentially, use some fucking common sense.
Just watched the video and the reporter is standing on 38th & Sheridan (2 blocks from my place), so I assume Old Man River lives on Sheridan, judging by all the traffic whizzing by his house.
This is a pretty densely populated area, not urban, but dense. If you took a couple of potshots with a rifle at a moving vehicle I'd say you have a fair chance of taking out a bystander, let alone damaging someone else's property (house, car, etc.).
I agree with you, what's done is done and if I were on the jury I certainly wouldn't put an old man away for shooting some low-life stealing his trailer. On the other hand, I would hope anyone who chooses to own anything that could be used to kill someone (car, motorcycle, gun, machete) does so with the understanding that using it in anger is not appropriate.
He's 82 years old, and fired two shots at a vehicle "speeding away". One of those two shots hit one of the guys in the face.
You think you could do better? I'd be surprised if 1 in 10 could make a 50% ratio on two shots at 82 years old.
You're saying that if someone was stealing something that you spent your hard earned money to get, you wouldn't try to stop them? I don't know about anyone else, but I would have sprayed the crap out of that truck until it was out of site.
I hate when people steal, because like someone previously stated, you steal part of someone's life when you take something that they worked hard to get. Bringing Hitler into this makes your points look stupid.
I would be just as pissed as that guy if someone tried to steal something with as much monetary value as a trailer from me. Also, think about what may have been inside of the trailer. There may have been a LOT of valuable items within the trailer.
The reaction was completely just and I support exactly what he did. Thievery pisses me off. Try seeing things from another perspective before bringing a person who killed more than 6 million people for no reason into a conversation. :music07:
My comment was in response to a very specific quote advocating death to thieves because the "world is better off without them".
although I agree that thieves are one of the scum of the earth, I don't think the punishment of death is fitting of the crime, especially if executed in vigilante fashion. People make mistakes and a lot of young thieves have been reformed later in life, but that's beside the point.
In our judicial system, no one is "allowed" to take a human life unless under immediate danger(self defense) or when sentenced to death by a jury of peers.
If one is going to do a cost/benefit analysis on living life within the framework of the current rule of law, insurance far outweighs a gun in protecting an asset like a fucking trailer. You can't shoot to kill no matter how many spins you throw trying to rationalize it.
Anyway, I've made my point, if people don't agree I respect their opinion although as demonstrated in this case, I think it's a dumb choice. If I was the old man, I'd be calling allstate, he's probably going to die in prison. who's the real fool here? I feel bad for the old man, I do, but he fucked up.
although I agree that thieves are one of the scum of the earth, I don't think the punishment of death is fitting of the crime, especially if executed in vigilante fashion. People make mistakes and a lot of young thieves have been reformed later in life, but that's beside the point.
In our judicial system, no one is "allowed" to take a human life unless under immediate danger(self defense) or when sentenced to death by a jury of peers.
If one is going to do a cost/benefit analysis on living life within the framework of the current rule of law, insurance far outweighs a gun in protecting an asset like a fucking trailer. You can't shoot to kill no matter how many spins you throw trying to rationalize it.
Anyway, I've made my point, if people don't agree I respect their opinion although as demonstrated in this case, I think it's a dumb choice. If I was the old man, I'd be calling allstate, he's probably going to die in prison. who's the real fool here? I feel bad for the old man, I do, but he fucked up.
go hug a tree
people have the right to defend their property .. he was aiming for the car and got a good shot off.
go hug Scion while he's hugging a tree
This is a HELLUVA idea ... politicians backing this have my vote.
Depends on where you live and the circumstances...
Castle doctrine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia