Good thing this guy wasn't black...

[dreamache]

Its been established the cops went too far. They had a history with Thomas, he was not ever beaten before, this time he got beaten. The cops went too far. We know this.

But in stories like this, the backstory is just as relevant. The father who did not take charge with his schizophrenic son and yet led the charge after the death. What's the story there? The kid yelling for his father as he died, you do not think there are some issues there also? Dad never being there maybe? or Maybe even that Dad always bailed him out of crap he got himself into by being a jackass to cops and living the "homeless life".

When the story first broke the Dad would talk of how sometimes he would find Kelly sleeping on the driveway in the morning. Really? What did you do about it dad?

Now we have a Dad that is a part of the story - by his choice - becoming a celebrity. Who knows maybe he will be the next John Walsh or whatever - these Dad's of crime victims and sometimes Moms seem to leverage it into a job one way or another.

Even though we do not know, it is entirely possible given recent actions.

Of course the homelessness of this homeless person could have been avoided through much better parenting figure(s), but the exact same conclusion could be made of these cops. Letting cops off the hook with statements like "went too far" isn't enough, they went 100% far.

Physical aggression against another human being is wrong. I don't care if you're a thug or a cop. The only time it's ever justified is in self defense.

Non-aggression principle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Unarmed Gunman]

Maybe the fact that he's an uncaring piece-o-crap had something to do with his son being homeless. Maybe....

You're making an awful lot of assumptions about a person you know nothing about.

I don't remember anybody asking if Rodney King was high on drugs and "resisting arrest" because of bad parenting. All I remember was riots in LA and Rodney King didn't even die. Excessive police force is excessive police force and shouldn't be tolerated in any circumstances.

Here's two questions to make you uncomfortable (if you're honest):

1 - If he was black, wouldn't you assume the cops were racist and only beat him to death because he was black?

2 - If he was black, wouldn't the national media be all over this story and painting the cops as racist killers?

I guarantee Soledad O'Brien would be doing a special on this right now if he was black, and I think that's the point the OP was trying to make with the thread title. Police violence like this should be unacceptable regardless of the color of the victim or the perpetrators. Until we treat similar stories with similar coverage expect racial animosity to increase. That's by design of course, but that's a whole other thread.

 

[REIMktg]

Of course the homelessness of this homeless person could have been avoided through much better parenting figure(s), but the exact same conclusion could be made of these cops. Letting cops off the hook with statements like "went too far" isn't enough, they went 100% far.

They did not go 100% too far, Thomas should have complied before the cop ever mentioned what his fists were going to do. Thomas was a proven quantity for them, that's why he says in the beginning of the video where the cop talks to Thomas about why he is making them come out to have meetings like this with him again and again?

FULL THOMAS TRANSCRIPT - http://www.fullertonsfuture.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Transcripts-Kelly-Thomas-FPD.pdf

Have any of you actually read the transcript? There is a lot that is not in the video that shows Ramos telling Kelly why he is there, why they were called, that he was being picked up for suspicion of burglary - Thomas even dicked around with them over his name.

Now, none of that justifies the beating - but why doesn't anyone know about the previous encounters? Why not the fact that Ramos spoke to Thomas for some time and Thomas was being a smart ass not even giving his name - lying about it in fact.

Physical aggression against another human being is wrong. I don't care if you're a thug or a cop. The only time it's ever justified is in self defense.

Non-aggression principle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I do not agree with that principle. I do believe the cops were wrong and went too far. But that principle itself is also wrong. I would save you with aggression, even though I do not know you, if confronted with the proper scenario. I believe in proactive aggression,. not in this instance from the cops, but in general, there is a place for it.


------------------------------------------

KellyThomas.org is still available - anyone up for Madeline Pulver type case study?

 

[teck112]

Nine Inch Nails "I'm Afraid Of Americans" (David Bowie cover) Live @ Toronto 2009 - YouTube

Fellow NIN fan.
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jo8TwvpoIvE]AND ALL THAT COULD HAVE BEEN DVD PIGGY HALO 17 - YouTube[/ame]

 

[dreamache]

They did not go 100% too far, Thomas should have complied before the cop ever mentioned what his fists were going to do.

I watched the video and I read half of the PDF. I saw a guy half-fucking around with the cops and they went fucking insane beyond comprehension. Thomas never touched them.

Thomas was a proven quantity for them, that's why he says in the beginning of the video where the cop talks to Thomas about why he is making them come out to have meetings like this with him again and again?

You're referring to, "...it seems like every day, we have to talk to you about somethin'... do you enjoy it?", THOMAS: "Oh yeah its great dude, I love bumpin' into you every day."

Hardly what you make it sound to be, as if the guy is seeking the attention of cops.

FULL THOMAS TRANSCRIPT - http://www.fullertonsfuture.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Transcripts-Kelly-Thomas-FPD.pdf

Have any of you actually read the transcript? There is a lot that is not in the video that shows Ramos telling Kelly why he is there, why they were called, that he was being picked up for suspicion of burglary - Thomas even dicked around with them over his name.

Now, none of that justifies the beating - but why doesn't anyone know about the previous encounters? Why not the fact that Ramos spoke to Thomas for some time and Thomas was being a smart ass not even giving his name - lying about it in fact.

...hard to imagine a schizophrenic homeless man might have issues socializing.

I do not agree with that principle. I do believe the cops were wrong and went too far. But that principle itself is also wrong. I would save you with aggression, even though I do not know you, if confronted with the proper scenario. I believe in proactive aggression,. not in this instance from the cops, but in general, there is a place for it.

Give me a scenario, interested in what you're thinking.

 

[knarxed]

Here's two questions to make you uncomfortable (if you're honest):

1 - If he was black, wouldn't you assume the cops were racist and only beat him to death because he was black?

2 - If he was black, wouldn't the national media be all over this story and painting the cops as racist killers?

I guarantee Soledad O'Brien would be doing a special on this right now if he was black, and I think that's the point the OP was trying to make with the thread title. Police violence like this should be unacceptable regardless of the color of the victim or the perpetrators. Until we treat similar stories with similar coverage expect racial animosity to increase. That's by design of course, but that's a whole other thread.

Given that this is on a separate additional tangent rather than replying to the context at hand, I'd like to get your opinion on this one thing: why are people perpetuating this concept? Yeah, it sucks that this doesn't get the attention it deserves (or, other stories get more attention than they deserve), but it's pretty damn annoying to hear this complaint time and time again especially when there are stories in which race has nothing to do with it. Of course the OP is going to reference race as he's part of the WF bigot brigade, but I don't see where it's relevant. It's as if some people are upset over the lack of action taken by the media instead of the crime at hand and it sickens me.