Ya lets not blame the muslims
- Thread starter Zaino
- Start date
I never suggested that. You don't need to disprove something that hasn't been proven. No proof = non-existence. Faith is the blind assertion of existence without proof, and it's the root cause of stories like this.
I assume that was directed towards me. So you have no problem with the fact that this guy and plenty of others died needlessly based on the teachings of beings (Christians, Muslims, etc..) no one has ever met, aside from some scribblings in old books?
I do have a problem with it, and while I may be a bit coarse in tone, people killing others and others being killed (martyrs) over faith alone is an atrocity on both sides.
I have a problem with the fact that many atheists seem to think that 'but others do it too' is a legitimate argument.
I have a problem that you're lumping all who criticizes Islam into bed with Christians, when I for example is at best a cultural christian who is more interested in Thor than Jesus.
You relativize the harm that someone does now because someone else has done it before.
It is the exact same as excusing Israeli war crimes with the Holocaust (not that I'm taking sides against the israeli) or saying that Hitler wasn't so bad because Stalin was also bad.
It all ends up in the very easy and frankly intellectually vapid 'kumbaya, can't we all get along, at least long enough for you to see my brilliance'.
When atheists won't confront, ridicule and attack Islam like they constantly attack Christianity, then I call them cowards. Cowards and hypocrites.
To some degree it makes me think that these 'atheists' are little more than Che Guevara wearing trustbaby liberals (to use a metaphor for Americans).
It is an easy way to stand out and feel above the commoners, but also totally absent of commitment.
I don't ever specifically attack any one religion, I only left out the muslims who murdered the Christian because it should go without saying that they're sick and twisted people.
But all religions share the same commonality in the belief of a deity, and if their teachings justify x, y or z; people blindly follow along.. and in that, they're all equally regarded as being potentially dangerous in one way or another.
You're doing it again. Maybe you're not aware of it.
We could easily agree that all religion has the same basis, but you conviniently leave out the fact that some religions are more important to people than others and that some religions have violence written into them where others have not.
But I frequently try to make a point that Islam is today operating as a political ideology which shares many similarities with radical marxism.
Lets see:
Communism:
Western materialism is decadent
Islam:
Western materialism is decadent
Communism:
International. Wants to make everyone communist and uses military force to achieve it.
Islam:
International. Wants to make everyone mulsim and uses military force to achieve it.
Communism:
No free elections. Democracy is regarded as a sham.
Islam:
No free elections. Democracy is regarded as a sham.
Communism:
Inner party is the real power.
Islam:
Mullahs are the real power.
Communism:
Has willing guerilla fighters and terrorists
Islam:
Has willing guerilla fighters and terrorists
Communism:
Has left wing apologists
Islam:
Has left wing apologists
Communism:
Restricts freedom of speech in art, literature, music
Islam:
Bans most art, literature and music
..
..
..
..
I really don't understand how people don't see Islam for what it is.
I am beginning to think some of you have cognitive dissonance. Don't you see how you are constantly proving my thesis.
No, using 'You too' arguments (Tu quoque - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) is a logical fallacy.
You atheist apologists unfortunately seem to lack the argumentative prowess of your idols.
Hency, my point still stands: The atheist position is invoked to feel superior and not out of rational thought.
Inb4 Moxie goes to Saudi Arabia, has his hands cut for having pink-backgrounded-avatar, comes back and cannot type anymore in defense of Islam.
That's your argument? Islam is becoming too marxist?
Have you heard what the NSA has been up to for the past decade?
In God we trust!
No, that is not my argument.
My argument is that thinking of Islam and the problems associated with it as being founded in religion is wrong. Islam serves a purpose similar as marxism did in Sovjet Russia.
It is a proxy to spread influence for Iran and Saudi Arabia just like marxism was for the Sovjet Union to spread influence far beyond its neighboring borders.
I like Islam and Communism to show that they're both radical authoritarian international political ideologies.
Also, still not a christian and not religious.
This is a logical error, because everything we do not yet know or understand lacks proof, and what you're basically saying is that which exists is only what we already know.
See Black Swans.
He's not trying to defend Islam. He's pointing out the hypocrisy of the criticisms.
Of course there are some religions that are more violent than others.. I'm not giving Islam a free pass, I know how fucked many of those people are in the head.
But at best, the most peaceful religion (whichever that may be, there are tons) requires the belief in a deity that no one has ever seen, and living a life consistent with its respective scripture. That's dangerous as it requires the lack of logic, evidence and reasoning. That's my issue with religion.
Christianity is far from peace though. While its believers might not be cutting people's heads off, the Bible is still filled with an immense amount of violence and scripture that makes people prejudice and unaccepting of others. Children are taught they'll go to hell if they don't accept Jesus Christ as their lord and savior, I mean c'mon, that's fucked.
My position on this doesn't come from wanting to "feel superior", it doesn't come from "hating religion", it comes from an understanding that, like the state, religion is nothing more than a social construct in order to (a) control people under hierarchy and (b) make people money.. and this faith lends itself to a whole host of negative consequences (collectivism, violence, prejudice, coercion, denial of logic & science, etc..)
So that's my only stance in this thread.
...and @ 0:33
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tS0mQ25ezq4"]Slayer - Disciple - YouTube[/ame]