greatest police badge number ever

[dreamscape]

Thank you for your advice, officer...

All I saw in this video is a police officer trying to do his job. He obviously has seniority in his little town and it showed. Handled the entire situation with grace and was NON-confrontational the entire time.

There are some police officers that shouldn't be and those that make mistakes should be punished accordingly. However, I do believe overall most do the best they can with the resources and training given.

Most important - remember - you are dealing with HUMAN BEINGS with ALL of their FAULTS and BIASES. Cops NEED to be impartial and courteous every single time - however - they are only humans and make MISTAKES.

For anyone raging on police officers because of these videos may I humbly suggest going down to your local precinct and asking to do a 'Ride Along' on a Friday or Saturday night? These are free and all you have to do is sign a waiver. When asked why you want to do this just tell them you want to learn about the job they do. You'll be assigned to a beat officer and ride around with him an entire shift.

Most fun time you will have for a while and you will learn a great deal. What do they look for but most importantly WHY? You'll see people CONSTANTLY lying to them, badgering and treating them like shit. Then you'll see others that are purely awesome to them. Big surprise - when people aren't dick heads most officers are actually pretty cool. Instead of raging on them for pulling you over for speeding, how about just being honest and saying... Good morning. how are YOU today. (and actually be sincere). You'd be surprised how many times you can walk away with a 'warning' vs. an actual ticket.

Smile and hand them the monopoly - get out of jail card - and ask if that works for tickets too. You'll have them laughing and you never know. He might forget about the ticket.

Long story short, use it as education on how to deal with a police officer when pulled over yourself. You might just learn something that will help you in the future.

Again, this is not 'justifying' or 'excusing' any rogue behavior. Those guys should be arrested and adjudicated harder then anyone else since they are the 'enforcers' of our laws...

 

[greenleaves]

Slow down there Hitler.


Who is so morally righteous as to make that determination? Hitler thought the Jews were not fit to live.


That's the propaganda.


Who pays for private security? Who pays for insurance?


That's true, so why are you projecting that they would be dire?

UG ripped apart your arguments. You don't answer.

BTW, damnEPC never said it should be that way. He said it is that way. He is right. You are the one creating strawman arguments.

And there are places and times when there were no police. Somalia, the period of warring states in china and the fall of the roman empire. So projecting based on these past experiences doesn't seem irrational. It seems irrational to predict something different, when humans haven't changed hardly at all.

 

[guerilla]

UG ripped apart your arguments. You don't answer.

I have UG on ignore and thanks to Darrin's script, I don't even know when he posts.

I've wasted literally hundreds of posts talking to UG on these forums. If he's made good arguments, someone else can take them on.

BTW, damnEPC never said it should be that way. He said it is that way. He is right. You are the one creating strawman arguments.

No one is disputing how things are.

And there are places and times when there were no police. Somalia, the period of warring states in china and the fall of the roman empire.

There are also no police where I live. In 2 years, I have not seen a cop car, or heard of any police in the area.

So projecting based on these past experiences doesn't seem irrational.

The past doesn't predict the future, if it did, nothing would change. What people do is postdict, and then claim that they have predictive powers.

It seems irrational to predict something different, when humans haven't changed hardly at all.

I have very little hope for humanity. I am not arguing for or against humanity. I am simply arguing facts and logic.

Which always pisses off people who don't rely on facts and evidence.

 

[jhoffy22]

Guerilla, are you implying that our society would be okay without a police force or anything closely similar?

Please tell me the solution. I'm not being a smart ass, I want to know.

 

[guerilla]

Guerilla, are you implying that our society would be okay without a police force

I want to unpack this, but I don't have enough time to explore terms like "society" and "ok" with you. These are broad abstractions and for all intents and purposes, useless.

Would you be ok without a police force? Probably. I think most people would be.

The police as it is, are an oxymoron. They take money from you by threat of force, to protect your property and your person against force.

It's a contradiction.

or anything closely similar?

What is "closely similar"?

Can I hire someone to protect my person and property? Sure. Who here has the authority to hire someone to issue tickets? Or to stop other people from smoking pot? Or having gay buttsex?

Let's pretend we live in a world where property (and time) are scarce.

Let's pretend that it's helpful to have a system for handling how we have property and avoid conflicts with one another (you and I don't try to wear the same shirt, at the same time).

Let's pretend that system can be called property rights. What's yours is yours and what is mine is mine.

Under such a system, how would I tell you what you can do with your property? How can I tell you what you should do with your car?

In fact, isn't doing this actually creating a conflict over YOUR property, when it is YOUR property to do with as you please?

So let's bring this back in. Who are the police? How did they gain control over life, liberty and property? If it's your life, liberty or property, wouldn't it make sense YOU gave them control?

Or can I give people in uniforms with weapons control over your life? (every dictator in history)

Could we protect OUR property without a police force? I believe so.

Please tell me the solution.

If I could solve all of society's problems myself, I would be your God.

I am not.

This isn't an issue of problem solving. Even as problem solving, the notion of police or government is completely irrational.

But instead, I am speaking about something ethical, something practical (how we structure a society to minimize conflict). If it is wrong for me to hurt or bully you, how can it be ok for a police officer to do so? WHO in our "society" has the authority to grant him those powers?

 

[joconnor424]

A little civil disobedience is not a bad thing, but when you're getting pulled over for violating the law you don't have a leg to stand on.

And the jackoffs sound 22 years old, so they obviously know everything about the law and their rights...

By the way, Keene by way of New Jersey? That just sounds like liberal assholes. Keene is a hotbed for hippies and socialists.

 

[jhoffy22]

Short and simple response:

I'm happy to sacrifice a bit of my own freedom for a little bit more security and therefore am willing to grant them access to those powers, as long as they abide to an established criteria of what they can and cannot do based on what we allow them to do or not do.

The world would be a cold place if you had to constantly look over your shoulder.

 

[guerilla]

A little civil disobedience is not a bad thing, but when you're getting pulled over for violating the law you don't have a leg to stand on.

Why?

And the jackoffs sound 22 years old, so they obviously know everything about the law and their rights...

The guy in the passenger seat was Ian Freeman of Free Talk Live.

By the way, Keene by way of New Jersey? That just sounds like liberal assholes. Keene is a hotbed for hippies and socialists.

Keene is the home of the Free State Project. It's a libertarian thing.

 

[guerilla]

I'm happy to sacrifice a bit of my own freedom for a little bit more security and therefore am willing to grant them access to those powers, as long as they abide to an established criteria of what they can and cannot do based on what we allow them to do or not do.

You dodged the question.

You can grant the police access to your life, and I am 100% ok with that, but where did you get the authority to grant the police access to my life?

I am not trying to attack you personally, so please don't take it that way, but what you're doing is rationalizing being a victim.

You don't think you have a choice, so you frame it as a choice you made.

People do the same thing with taxes. Everyone justifies why they pay taxes, but whenever taxes have been made voluntary, no one pays.

 

[jhoffy22]

You dodged the question.

You can grant the police access to your life, and I am 100% ok with that, but where did you get the authority to grant the police access to my life?

Well as long as actions of you or your life do not threaten my life's safety, all is well and my police force should have no right to intervene with your life.

 

[jhoffy22]

Why?

Who created those roadways?

 

[kingofsp]

I'm sympathetic to the volutaryist position, I really am. I believe it is the most moral position, but it is unsustainable as has been proven over time in every society ever. People keep forgetting that every single community started out as a voluntaryist society and over time it has evolved into a government. There are no exceptions.

Call it a flaw in the human condition, but one thing I've learned is there is nothing more hopeless than fighting against human nature. We have oppressive governments because the people want them. It sucks, but people feel comfort in slavery. Why do you think the slaves never rose up en masse and freed themselves?

Right, they didn't. But at some point the social consciousness changed and after thousands of years of direct human ownership, people came to realize the extreme immorality of slavery and now the concept is rejected by most people around the world. I'm quite certain that in some real life conversation (before we could all communicate from our couches in our underwear) in the early 19th century, some "radical" that was arguing that slavery is immoral encountered a similar counter-argument that slavery had always existed and was simply part of the "human condition" that couldn't be changed.

I don't hope that you or anyone else will organize a militia and we'll start some kind of revolution. But I would like it if more people would come to the logical conclusion of "yep, the state is violence and it is wrong." Whether or not we will destroy ourselves before that becomes the prevailing sentiment of mankind or not remains to be seen.

Call me an optimist, but slavery as the world once knew it is all but gone. Women are no longer relegated to being baby making machines in much of the world. And now that we have the internet, philosophy isn't encountering the same type of censorship it has endured for centuries.

 

[guerilla]

Well as long as actions of you or your life do not threaten my life's safety, all is well and my police force should have no right to intervene with your life.

I can agree with that. So why can't I smoke pot then?

Who created those roadways?

First, the police do not restrict themselves to the roadways.

Second, American law is derived from British common law, and there has been a common law right to travel for several centuries.

But putting that aside, who did build the roads? The first roads in America were private. Today's roads are built by the people who have claimed authority from people who have not given it.

If a thief built those roads with money he stole from you, would you accept the argument that he has a right to tell you what to do on those roads?

 

[guerilla]

I'd be highly skeptical of anyone who claims that there is a predominant, prevailing and absolute "human nature" who doesn't understand even the basics of economics or human action.

And if they did understand economics and human action, they wouldn't make stupid statements like that.

Just sayin.

 

[joconnor424]

Why?

What did they prove with their video? The police officer did his job. They tried to provoke him- clearly with their battery of useless questions near the end that solicited the officers response. They don't look like freedom fighters. They look like asshole kids with too much time on their hands. I'd be more impressed if they videotaped and engaged in real debate with lawmakers, not antagonize an officer doing their job. And the giggling at the end of their video made them look like punk kids rather than people with a message. I support libertarian viewpoints but this was a non-issue that they walked away from looking like bullies.

The guy in the passenger seat was Ian Freeman of Free Talk Live.

Well, if he's that involved in changing minds and pushing a movement he should be smart enough to know how to conduct himself for the betterment of his cause. This did nothing for the libertarian cause.

Keene is the home of the Free State Project. It's a libertarian thing.

The FSP is about the only Libertarian thing Keene has going for it. I live in NH. Keene is very liberal. It's home to a state college, for gods sake. That should explain everything.

 

[guerilla]

the police officer did his job.

What is his job?

I support libertarian viewpoints

Which ones?

Well, if he's that involved in changing minds and pushing a movement he should be smart enough to know how to conduct himself for the betterment of his cause. This did nothing for the libertarian cause.

I can agree with that, but by the same token, your posts aren't advancing any libertarian causes either.

The FSP is about the only Libertarian thing Keene has going for it. I live in NH. Keene is very liberal. It's home to a state college, for gods sake. That should explain everything.

Well, those are FSP guys.

 

[joconnor424]

What is his job?

To enforce the law?

Which ones?

Limited government. Economic freedom. Personal liberty. The usual.

I can agree with that, but by the same token, your posts aren't advancing any libertarian causes either.

I have no cause. I'm just voicing my opinion. These guys posted this to advance their agenda.

Well, those are FSP guys.

They're also assholes, judging by this video.

 

[guerilla]

This is a pretty good interview posted up on Facebook today. If you're interested in this stuff, Marc Stevens discusses the notion of government with a very conventional, right wing, Tea Partier.

http://marcstevens.net/interviews/20130504theedgeam.html

It is very hard for people to be skeptical or to question the accepted (herd signalled) wisdom.

Constitutionalists really struggle with the idea that the Constitution is just 4 pieces of paper, and laws are arbitrary human opinions.

 

[guerilla]

To enforce the law?

Who gave him that job? Also, who created the law?

Does the law apply to me?

Limited government. Economic freedom. Personal liberty. The usual.

But not resisting a cop harassing you?

I have no cause. I'm just voicing my opinion. These guys posted this to advance their agenda.

They believe their agenda is limited government. Economic freedom. Personal liberty. The usual.

Just sayin

 

[joconnor424]

Who gave him that job? Also, who created the law?

Does the law apply to me?

The city of Manchester employs him. I believe elected legislators crafted and voted on the law requiring vehicle inspections. I don't know when or by whom, but I'm sure you can find out.

The law applies to you if you live in New Hampshire.

But not resisting a cop harassing you?

I didn't witness any harassment in that video. Is there any other footage of this officer harassing the driver and passengers?

On the whole, I do not support harassment by the police. But I do support their duty to enforce the law.

They believe their agenda is limited government. Economic freedom. Personal liberty. The usual.

Just sayin

Well they lost that point in this video. Maybe the next one will be better.